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Thread: Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

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    Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

    Anyone here ever try reforming .348 Winchester cartridge cases into .50-45 Carbine or .56-50 Spencer? I have been reading about the 500 Linebaugh cartridge that was derived from reforming the .348 Winchester case, and noted that the 500 Linebaugh case (1.395" OAL) is only about 0.05-inches longer than the early Springfield .50-45 U.S. Carbine cartridge case (1.337" OAL), for which is only about a full quarter inch longer than .56-.50 Spencer. Starline has 500 Linebaugh new made brass is necked to use a .510 bullet and is advertised at a stunningly cheap 36 cents per M, while they advertise .50-70 at 89 cents per M, and .56-.50 (Taylors) at 80 cents per M. The least expensive .56-.50 Spencer cases trimmed down from .50-70 and intended to fit original firearms are $1.80 per M or $2.50 a piece in smaller lots. Since there are some of us Spencer shooters using originals chambered .56-.56 and .56-.50, I'm sure that I may not be alone in looking for a less pricy alternative for new made brass than paying $1.80 to $2.50 per case, when for as little as 83 cents I could perhaps trim down almost the same exact cartridge case from new made 348 Winchester?

    http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=3167.0
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    Re: Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

    Wondering who has equipment to atttempt this -- Ray Rapine?? Wondering if the machine time will not push the cost right back where we are.

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    Re: Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman
    Wondering who has equipment to atttempt this -- Ray Rapine?? Wondering if the machine time will not push the cost right back where we are.
    It's not all that complicated. The 500 Linebaugh cartridge was based on a 348 Winchester cartridge case cut down to 1.5 inches and afterwards the inside reamed out to .500-inches. The case diameter of 348 Winchester is 0.553" being the same as .50-70 and, of course, .56-.50. The lower shoulder of the neck measures 1.65" from the base, such that is it not necessary to reform the neck, but merely cut down the case and ream out to the desired .510. The OAL for .56-.50 is 1.156" (as measured from Buffalo Arms unprimed cases), also with a case mouth of .510. The only major concern that I have is with the rim diameter, which the 348 Winchester is reportedly .610 whereas .50-70 is larger at .636. The rim diameter of Starline's .56-.50 brass for the Armisport is reportedly .629 to .632, so it may be that it is the rim diameter of 348 Winchester that renders this idea mute? However, while the rim diameter may cause extraction problems in rapid-fire action, they may work okay in single-shot mode?
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    Re: Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

    Richard - I think you're right. I think the rim diameter issue is a killer. I can't imagine how you would increase it. In one of my experiments many years ago I remember doing the extraction with a stick down the bore.

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    Re: Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

    It was interesting to read the gent at cascity remark about how the .56-50 cases modified from .348 Winchester worked well in his Armisport with the Lane extractor, the M1865 Spencer was, of course, not originally made with the Lane extractor, though some Spencer firearms were later repaired when the Lane extractor (patented Jan 1, 1867) was added, this was a principal feature of the Model 1867 and New Model Spencer. For those not familiar with the Lane device, it featured a protruding tooth, spring-loaded extractor that engaged the underside of the spent cartridge case rim as the action moved rearward when the lever action was rotated down, but was soon after discontinued (when they returned to the M1865 blade-type) because the Lane extractor tended to deform the cartridge cases.

    I will say that while the latter is certainly a concern, especially when reloading cartridges to reduce costs, but failing to check that the blade-type extractor is all the way forward when you are loading in single-shot mode will ruin your whole day when you close the breech with a round chambered in front of the extractor! Maybe taking a rod to the line may not be all that much a problem?
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    Re: Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

    I have reformed lots of 348 Win to 56-50 and 50 carbine/cadet. It's not quite as easy as you suggest, but it's not killer hard either. First off, the rims are too small to extract reliably in most Spencers. They do work in M-1867s with the Lane extractor, and I suspect they would work in the ArmiSport Spencers. (They will NOT work in New Models with the short blade extractor either.) The case bases run smaller than the nominal dimension and are quite loose in a Spencer or 50 carbine chamber. To cure this, I made a neck expander plug that screws into a 50-70 neck die. The end that starts into the case is about 0.40" diameter with a very generous radius, and it tapers quickly up to 0.51". (These dimensions are from memory, but they are close.) This die is hardened and polished.

    When I make cases, the first step is to cut the 348s off about 0.025" longer than the nominal length of the finished case. Next anneal the necks well. Lube the inside of the cases with sizing wax, very generously. Now run them through the neck expander, which actually expands the whole case down to almost the rim. Sizing takes a lot of effort on the press handle, even when the cases are soft. If it gets too tight, do the expansion in two stages and reapply case lube between expansion steps. I find that it helps to re-expand cases after the first firing to get the rim area all the way out to the right size.

    Clean the expanded cases and run them through a regular full length sizing die, then neck ream with a 33/64 reamer. Now trim to finished length. You will find that the case expansion step shortens the case quite a bit. You shouldn't have to trim much. Finally re-anneal the necks.

    If you don't expand the entire case, you will have bad extraction problems as the case will be loose in the chamber at the back, even if it fits in the neck area. Once fully expanded, cases will usually extract from an M-1860/65 Spencer (probably 8 out of 10 come out OK). They are iffy in a '68 Remington RB Navy carbine and Ballard 56-56. They usually require rodding out in a '66 Trapdoor Cadet. I shoot them in individuals, but not in team events.

  7. #7

    Re: Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

    I have reformed lots of 348 Win to 56-50 and 50 carbine/cadet. It's not quite as easy as you suggest, but it's not killer hard either. First off, the rims are too small to extract reliably in most Spencers. They do work in M-1867s with the Lane extractor, and I suspect they would work in the ArmiSport Spencers. (They will NOT work in New Models with the short blade extractor either.) The case bases run smaller than the nominal dimension and are quite loose in a Spencer or 50 carbine chamber. To cure this, I made a neck expander plug that screws into a 50-70 neck die. The end that starts into the case is about 0.40" diameter with a very generous radius, and it tapers quickly up to 0.51". (These dimensions are from memory, but they are close.) This die is hardened and polished.
    Do you know more about this how it will start today?

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    Re: Re-forming modern commercial brass into .56-.50 Spencer

    When I got my spencer starline was backed up on the brass so I made some from .348, They worked and allowed me to shoot my gun a bit until my cases came in.

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