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Thread: Kammerbüchse m1854 Cartridge Question

  1. #1
    iac is offline
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    Kammerbüchse m1854 Cartridge Question

    Gents, Hoping someone has this info.
    On the Austrian Kammerbuchse cartridge, I'm pretty sure that the cloth 'bag/patch' holding the ball below the powder was greased, but was it also rammed down the barrell with the ball ? Space Cowboy (?) had some info re, this, but I now see that he hasn,t posted in ~ 2 years.
    I appreciate any info you might have, and yes I,m aware this isn,t an ACW cartridge. Thanks, IAC.

  2. #2
    Don Dixon is offline
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    I think that you may be somewhat confused regarding this question. You refer to a Muster 1854 cartridge consisting of a bullet attached to a cloth sack as being used in the Kammerbüchse. I think you may be refering to the guard cartridge.

    The following is the entry from the draft of my Austrian rifle book for the guard cartridge used in the Muster 1842 and 1849 System Augustin Kammerbüchse rifles:

    "Guard Cartridges: To be effective in the Kammerbüchse, the bullet had to be compressed against the shoulder of the Kammer [chamber] with the ramrod. This deformed the bullet so that when it was unloaded from a guard’s weapon it was unfit for further use. Firing the weapon to clear it represented a waste of bullets, and also a safety and noise issue in built-up areas. Initially, the k.k. Army wrapped the balls used by guards in percale. The balls, which were not compressed, could them be unloaded by the guard after he went off watch by catching the percale with the ball screw or worm screwed onto the end of his ramrod and fishing the bullet out of the bore. Beginning in 1847 the k.k. Army used the round ball from the smoothbore infantry musket cartridge, which was .0.0196 inches [.5 mm] smaller than the Kammerbüchse bulet. The round ball was prevented from falling out of the rifle by using a paper or cloth wad. Once the wad was removed with a ball screw when the soldier went off watch, the round ball and powder could be easily removed from the weapon and reused. (Dolleczek, Monographie, 93; k.k. Army, Die Carabiner, 39)"

    The references do not mention greasing the percale. I don't think that the k.k. Army did, because it would have contaminated the powder. Since the guard would have gone to his cartridge pouch for service cartridges after firing his first shot, you really didn't need to have that first shot greased.

    The following is the entry for the guard cartridges used in the Muster 1854 System Lorenz weapons:

    "Guard Cartridge: The compression bullet could be difficult to remove from the rifle if one wanted to clear it without firing. Jamming the ball screw on the end of a ramrod into the bullet could cause it to compress making it difficult to remove. Improved guard cartridges were introduced in 1861. The System Lorenz bullet used in this cartridge had its nose flattened and pre-drilled for the ball screw. The powder charge was fixed to the base of the bullet in a small cloth sack which could be pierced by the flame from a percussion cap. This permitted the cartridge to be pulled intact from the barrel when unloading the rifle, and made the potential repeated use of the same guard cartridge possible. (Dolleczek, Monographie, 97; Gabriel, Die Hand- und Faustfeuerwaffen, 96)"

    So, you see the confusion. I think you are talking about the guard cartridge developed ca 1861, but describe the weapon it was used in as the Kammerbüchse. The references do not mention greasing the "small cloth sack," and I think that it would have defeated purpose since it would have spoiled the powder before the cartridge was used, spoiled the powder for reuse after the cartridge was unloaded, and perhaps made the cartridge more difficult to ignite with the percussion cap. Again, the guard would have fired only the one round before going for the service cartridges in his cartridge pouch. You wouldn't have required grease on just that one round.

    Hope this answers the question.

    Regards,
    Don Dixon
    2881V

  3. #3
    iac is offline
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    Thanks Mr Dixon, I meant M1842 above, not 1854.
    Your info would explain why the patch was so oversized. For easy removal.
    Both my sources refer to the M42 cartridge.
    1st Google- minerva kammerbüchse, for a German (?) book, showing the cartridge on ~page 825, and a description on page 633.
    2nd Google- cartucce avancarica, for a website from the Lombardoveneta Italian shooting club, showing a book by Dario L Toso. With the illustration by Dolleczek, it says the cloth patch is 'unta', which is Italian for oiled/greased. Apparently this is wrong and actually refers to the BALL not the patch !
    Thanks Again for the Great Info, IAC.
    Last edited by iac; 12-19-2017 at 02:11 PM.

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