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Thread: Minie ball thoughts

  1. #31
    Lou Lou Lou is offline
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    Back when I wanted a back up for my 30 year old Rapine 515-385 moose needed me to order three to make the mould. Now it is in the catalog
    Lou Lou Lou Ruggiero
    Tammany Regt-42nd NYVI

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorJack View Post
    Don-

    As stated, I tried the Moose version in my P53 Euroarms Enfield-

    1) Bore looks ok, measured 580. Rapine trash cans shoot into just under 2in before I quit messing with that gun. Moose Wilksons shot about the same with 45gr 3f Goex, Beeswax/Crisco 50/50 only on the bottom groove as shown in pic earlier in thread. Compression groove was clean. Started fouling out at about 5-7 shots and got progressively worse. I think a better barrel may be in order for that musket, but my Colts both shoot a similar load of 3f OE and LL into an inch. My musketoon has a Whitacre barrel and it's a great shooter. The PH 2 band is stock, but it shoots with the Colts and musketoon. Again, problem with Trash can is stability past 50. None of my guns seem to like the Hogdon much. No combination I've tested yet will match the trash cans at 50.

    2) I only use dead soft as I can get for muskets. My source is XRay room lead.

    3) Bullets I was sent were sized to 579 and dipped in lube I was using at the time (50/50 Crisco/Bees).

    4) I would love to try the Lorenz as originally designed in 58cal with my current powder and lube combo. I'm using 3f and 2f Old E with much less fouling and Lens Lube. As stated before, the Rapine TC will shoot into 1in in both my Colt Contracts and my PHs are shooting the Lee version into a similar size hole. BUT this bullet is not stable at 100yds, again, I'd love to try something else. For the PHs, I've tried the 575213 and a "New" Minie by Lee. The 575213 were ok, but not spectacular and the Lee, well, forget it. Yes, agreed, do not fill compression grooves, but I really want to try a two compression groove bullet. Anybody making a mold currently?

    5) In my limited trial of the Moose version, I didn't have enough bullets to do a ladder test AND all I had for powder at the time was Goex 3f. I'm currently using OE as it's pretty close to Swiss in terms of MV consistency and fouling but more to that point, there's a Goex distributor 30mi from my house and his price is same as Back Creek. That means I'm not limited to Nationals visits to get powder. While I don't have a chrono at the time, threads over on a black powder cart gun board regarding MV consistency of a number of brands of powder were quite interesting. Swiss was tops followed closely by OE. Goex std and others were nowhere nearly as consistent. Fouling was least with Swiss and OE. Schutzen was pretty dirty.

    I'd be game to try a 2 groove Lorenz bullet if I could get a mold. Recoil shy?? Don't have much problem with 500gr FMJ in my 45/70 at 1800fps in my Siamese Mauser. Yeah, it'll thump good on both ends. New shooter, now that's always up for debate I do agree that the Enfield may need a new barrel, but with 2 Colts, a PH, and musketoon shooting as well as they do, I'm thinking that gun is way down my priority list. What is on my list is getting stable at 100yds.
    I live in NC and can you let me know where and who your goex distributor is?

  3. #33
    Smokepole50 is offline
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    At NOE......10 molds ordered in a group buy will get you a custom bullet. If Al can make it and I bet he can. I already have the ball rolling on a Lorenz design.,..

  4. #34
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    ms3635v is offline
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    I shoot the Moose Wilkinson (sized to .576" for a .577 diameter Whitacre barrel) in my Razeed Richmond. I have been using this bullet for four years now and have done some experimenting along the way. I discovered that applying a small amount of Crisco to the compression groove area, and I don't mean filling it up and packing it in, and also using MCM on the base, I now can shoot longer without a fouling build-up. This small amount of Crisco, wiped on with my finger (I wait until the day of the match to wipe the Crisco on) does not alter the flight pattern of the bullet. And, as others have said, the bullet needs to be cast with the softest lead available and has to be sized to .001" under bore size. The Wilkinson's really do work very well.
    Mike Santarelli 03635V, Adjutant
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    The way I have taken to lubing my Moose Wilkinsons is I set them base down on my hotplate that the lube is melted in, and then I dip them into the lube. If some lube seeps into the compression groove area it is OK, because the hot bullet allows the lube to mostly run out of the groove. I give the bullet a slight shake when before setting it base down on some wax paper, to fling off any excess lube.

    Steve

  6. #36
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    I've been considering having molds made to replicate the original Lorenz bullet. I had not thought of doing the same for a .58 caliber version. I usually only do molds that produce copies of originals, but if there is enough interest in a .58 version, I would consider it. I've never shot one, but looks like they would be much easier to cast than hollow base Minnie.
    Mark Hubbs,

    Eras Gone Bullet Molds www.erasgonebullets.com

    Visit my history/archaeology blog at: www.erasgone.blogspot.com

  7. #37
    PoorJack is offline
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    We're looking at a modified version of the Lorenz. On your website, that 69cal is almost exactly like the Moose Wilkinson.
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"
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  8. #38
    da172 is offline
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    Lorenz style bullet in 1857 Mauser

    Good day Don,
    You are probably the right person to answer my question regarding Lorenz style bullet being used in Wurrtenbergischen Vereinsgewehr 1857 rifle called 1857 Mauser. The riflr was designed to shoot minie bullets however it was if the same caliber as austrian Lorenz and I am pretty sure the Lorenz bullet must had been used in 1857 Mauser at some point back then. Is there any reliable source to confirm this?
    Many thanks and Best Regards

    Daniel
    Last edited by da172; 03-01-2019 at 07:11 PM.

  9. #39
    Don Dixon is offline
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    Daniel,

    In the late 1850s, Austria, Bavaria, Saxony, Hesse, and some of the other small south German states signed the South German Caliber Convention, adopting uniform use of the Austrian 13.9 mm/.547 inch caliber. Such a wide-spread adoption of a standard military rifle caliber in Europe under the Caliber Convention would not happen again until the adoption of the 7.62X51 mm rifle cartridge by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization 100 years later. Although they adopted the same caliber, they did not adopt exactly the same cartridge. None-the-less, the experience of the 7th and 8th Corps of the Deutscher Bund’s Federal German Army indicated that while the national armies of the independent south German states represented in those two corps had different models of weapons, the trajectories and dispersion cones of the common ammunition specified under the Caliber Convention were so similar that the cartridges of any of the signatories could be used interchangeably in the weapons of all the signatories. The Convention helped the signatories to act in concert with each other as a counterweight to the growing Prussian power to the north, and to the traditional French enemy across the border, by resolving the logistical problem of ammunition resupply. If you ran out, shoot your ally's ammunition.

    So, while the so-called 1857 Mauser was designed by the Bavarian Army to shoot Minie type ammunition, it could use standard Austrian Army System Lorenz ammunition to equal effect. I hope that this answers your question.

    Regards,
    Don Dixon
    2881V

  10. #40
    da172 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Dixon View Post
    Daniel,

    So, while the so-called 1857 Mauser was designed by the Bavarian Army to shoot Minie type ammunition, it could use standard Austrian Army System Lorenz ammunition to equal effect. I hope that this answers your question.

    Regards,
    Don Dixon
    2881V
    Thanks Don. We share the same opinion however to convince sceptics I am looking for some positive confirmation of Lorenz bullet being shot from Mauser 1857. Have you come across any source actually describing the use or testing of Lorenz type bullet in Vereinsgewehr?

    There is an interesting discussion on our forum whether Lorenz type bullet is allowed by MLAIC in Lamarmora and Minie competition in military carbines like Enfild and Mauser. Being a Mauser owner and having Wilkinson mould (from Moose Moulds by the way) Iam curious if the combination is MLAIC legal.

    Brgds

    Daniel

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