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Thread: musket pickup one phase/shoot with team other phase

  1. #1
    gcolema1 is offline
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    musket pickup one phase/shoot with team other phase

    would this be legal? our team always shoots 2nd phase at nationals, so could i shoot morning musket phase as a pickup, then shoot with my team in the afternoon? I skimmed the rules and did not find anything, don't want to do this and get anyone disquailified.

    thanks in advance
    Glenn Coleman
    49th Va

  2. #2
    gcolema1 is offline
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    thank you Sir, 18.9.2

  3. #3
    Tom Magno, 9269V's Avatar
    Tom Magno, 9269V is offline
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    No, you cannot. It is illegal per section 18.9 of the rules. You risk both yourself being barred from shooting as well as both companies being disqualified.

    18.9 "Substitutions are allowed in company matches, but no shooter may fire on more than one musket company, one carbine company, one revolver company, one breechloading rifle/carbine II company, one single-shot breechloader, and one smoothbore company at a skirmish."

    18.9.2 "An individual who participates on more than one musket company, carbine company, revolver company, breechloading rifle/carbine II company,single-shot breechloader, or smoothbore company at a skirmish shall be barred from participation under Article II, Section 7 of the Bylaws"

    18.9.3 "A company that knowingly employs a shooter who has already fired on another company at that skirmish shall be disqualified from further participation in that company match and its times shall be canceled."

    Article II, Section 7 Bylaws:
    "The Board of Directors shall have the power to bar any individual from participation in any Association affairs or official skirmishes, and to bar any individual from Association property, if such action is deemed to be in the best interest of the Association. The Board of Directors may suspend or expel any member organization, pursuant to Article XI, Section 3, if such organization continues to keep as a member a person so barred."



    Hope this helps,
    Tom


    Last edited by Tom Magno, 9269V; 05-17-2017 at 12:20 PM.
    Tom Magno
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  4. #4
    jonk is offline
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    Our team generally shoots Phase I.

    I'm a night owl. I don't mind getting home at 1am.

    I'd be happy to stick around and be a pick up for someone for Phase II, unless it's pouring rain sideways or I had some other commitment.

    While I doubt anyone would realize if someone broke this rule... I wonder, why the prohibition? I can see for smoothbore or something where there is just one phase, and you have time and safety duties, why it would be a problem... even revolver, where your team has to provide time/safety for the other phase if your team is shooting both... but if your team is done and out of there by the time musket II comes up, I don't see a conflict of interests.

    I'm a class 1 musket shooter. I love to shoot! I'd be a damned fine pick up for some B team or short manned A team on phase II, and it's only the rules prohibiting me from doing so.

    If no one can list a good reason why this rule is in place, I'd be happy to draw up the verbiage for a rule change to submit to the MW regional commander.

  5. #5
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    Relay Vs Phases

    Relay a no, but maybe the rule could be of for Phases only. That may work.
    N-SSA Member since 1974

  6. #6
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    I'm pretty sure the rule was put into place to prevent 'top' shooters from stacking two teams so both could win medals.

    However, I agree with the concern that an energetic shooter should be allowed to help out other teams that are hurting to fill-out the ranks of an eight-man squad at Nationals....

    Like everything else in the rules, it's only important if the Timer decides to make an issue out of it...

    -Mike
    Mike 'Bootsie' Bodner
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  7. #7
    RaiderANV's Avatar
    RaiderANV is offline Moderator
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    The rule exists for pretty simple reasons which should be obvious. If units just outside the medal stack there companies with ringers (damned fine pick ups) then they would have an UNFAIR advantage over similar size/talent units. One unit use to do that all the time and won more medals then they should have but they did give you a T-shirt.

    I can't think of a sport were you can play/compete on different teams at the same event. Can you see a country doing this in the Olympics???
    Never squat with yer spurs on!!!

    Pat "PJ" Kelly #5795V
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  8. #8
    CAGerringer is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderANV View Post
    The rule exists for pretty simple reasons which should be obvious. If units just outside the medal stack there companies with ringers (damned fine pick ups) then they would have an UNFAIR advantage over similar size/talent units. One unit use to do that all the time and won more medals then they should have but they did give you a T-shirt.

    I can't think of a sport were you can play/compete on different teams at the same event. Can you see a country doing this in the Olympics???

    The idea of cheating to get a piece of shiny pot metal is foreign to me...but that said, I know there are those that may covet them to the point of "stacking the deck" when it comes to teams. Still, there is an easy fix that will allow shooters to shoot.
    I travel from Amelia Island, FL. twice a year to shoot with my old team at every Nationals. Since I only get to compete twice a year, I would love to shoot every event/phase I could get into. Instead, I sit and watch other people shoot Sunday afternoon. So how about this... we set up a lottery where those that want to shoot as a substitute for second phase, or first phase for that matter, put their names in a jar. Teams that need a shooter come up to the Base of the Tower, draw a name, and get a shooter. Simple. Easy to accomplish. Hard to cheat. And those that want to shoot more, can.

    Charlie Gerringer
    Old Dominion Dragoons

  9. #9
    RaiderANV's Avatar
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    yup,,,,,,,,still like your country competed in the morning in the first round at the Olympics so then you go pick up with another country for the second evening round.
    Never squat with yer spurs on!!!

    Pat "PJ" Kelly #5795V
    Bealeton, Virginny
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    MAYNARDS RULE!! & starr's DROOL!
    Hence the rust. MAYNARDAE LAUS DEO!

  10. #10
    CAGerringer is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderANV View Post
    yup,,,,,,,,still like your country competed in the morning in the first round at the Olympics so then you go pick up with another country for the second evening round.
    We allow subs in all phases already. At least half of the Nationals for the last 6 year's, I've shot as a sub. So what's the difference allowing subs that are chosen completely by chance? You might luck out and get a guy/gal from DSR, or you could get me. All that allowing subs , that are chosen by chance, to shoot both phases will accomplish is more full teams on the firing line. No chance for prior arrangements, no chance for 'stacking the deck'. Isn't that what we're trying to accomplish?
    Charlie Gerringer
    Old Dominion Dragoons

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