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Thread: P53 Barrel Flaw: Structural or Cosmetic?

  1. #1
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    P53 Barrel Flaw: Structural or Cosmetic?

    I'm having this barrel xrayed today. A bore scope inspection doesn't reveal any irregularities (ring, crease, pitting, etc....). Has anyone seen a similar flaw in material(s) or is this going to turn out to be a ruptured/fractured barrel?
    Thanks,
    -milsurpshooter


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  2. #2
    Lou Lou Lou is offline
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    Why not just have it relined? Save the money from testing and get a shooter out of it
    Lou Lou Lou Ruggiero
    Tammany Regt-42nd NYVI

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    It was aquired with a reline being a possibility. A friend is simply helping me out before going to the next step.
    - milsurpshooter

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    I believe magna-fluxing can find cracks in iron things, too.

    Steve

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    jonk is offline
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    I've seen some strange surface cosmetics over the years. You never know; the odds that it is just surface pitting in an unusual fashion are at least 50/50 in my book. However, I agree, it's worth checking out if the bore is shootable as it sits, or just get it relined if that proves a bad result.

  6. #6
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    The xray did not show a fracture. But what the xray did show almost looked like evenly spaced, angular changes in density throughout the entire length of the barrel. It resembled a wide rifling groove but at a faster twist rate than what is actually there. I'll try and post a pic later today. That now brings up questions about the original barrel manufacturing process. Were the barrels hand forged, extruded, etc...?
    However, I'm still concerned about the original spot on an otherwise VG+ bore. Any ideas on who to call to magnaflux a barrel and whether it's cost prohibitive?
    Thnx,
    - milsurpshooter

  7. #7
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    Any local engine-building machine shop can magna-flux.

    There is an old newspaper article, which I can not find at the moment, which describes many of the Enfield manufacturing steps.

    I know the barrel was forged, but I cannot remember if it was forged around a mandrel and forge-welded shut or if it was bored from a forged bar.

    Steve

  8. #8
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    Found it:

    http://acws.co.uk/archives-military-enfieldfactory

    The first state of the barrel is that of a slab of iron which weighs 10 1/4 pounds. This is welded and finished in a building separated from the main building. The first process causes this plate or slab to become a tube; it is then drawn out to the required length, the bore being kept hollow by means of a rod of iron; the breech-piece is welded on by means of a nervously excitable steam-hammer, which strikes a series of blows with uncommon rapidity. The boring is then proceeded with, many and various instruments being used. The outside is next turned, and any extra parts are taken off. The viewing then takes place. This is performed by a skilful workman, who places himself opposite a gas-lamp, or where there is a great light. To this he directs the barrel, so as to bring the light down the bore; he then slowly turns the tube, and is thus enabled at once to detect the slightest deviation from a straight line. Should any irregularities be discovered, the viewer taps the barrel with a hammer until the tube is perfectly true. The rifling of the barrel is then proceeded with. The proving is not the least important part of the process, although it is one which requires the least skill. The barrels are proved in a small room apart from the other buildings. The barrels, before being browned, are laid into stocks fitted for the purpose, and charged with 7 1/2 drams of powder and a bullet; the door of the room is closed, and the barrels are discharged by means of strings which are fastened to the triggers, and which can be pulled from the outside of the wall. Four drams are then discharged as before, and the barrels which have stood these proofs are considered sound. Sometimes there appears a flaw in the barrel, and then powder is added and charges fired, until the barrel is burst. We were informed that such a case had occurred some weeks previous to our visit, and it was not until 20 drams of powder had been used several times, that the desired result was obtained. Our informer stated that he had even then his doubts whether the bursting was not caused in consequence of the bullet not being quite rammed home.


    The browning of the barrel is a very delicate operation, and one which must be very trying to at least one of the individuals concerned, for in a room in which the thermometer must stand at about 140 degrees, a man remains upwards of twenty minutes to superintend the drying. Here it is that the mechanic is at last affected by external circumstances. The state of the weather is, in the browning, an important matter. If it should be wet, not more than half as much work can be accomplished as though it were dry. Flaws are more likely to occur during wet than during fine dry weather, and for every flaw, somebody has to be mulcted, for all is contract-work. A very small speck upon a barrel had been detected by the sharp eyes of an the examiner; a chalk-mark against it showed that this would not be allowed to pass; and two-pence-halfpenny was the loss which the man who had imperfectly done his work would suffer for this one flaw.
    So it appears that the barrel is forge-welded around a mandrel. There is a video of this process being done at Colonial Williamsburg:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAzJOULyx5c

    The forge welding process is the first several minutes of the video.

    Steve

  9. #9
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    Is this a British-made or Belgian-made barrel? British proofing required two proofs; Belgians only required one. The British trades were still making barrels the old-fashion way by hammer-forging when the United States had implemented the more modern practice of using a rolling mill, which finally replaced barrel-making in Birmingham in the mid-1860s when BSACo built their new armory to build the government Enfield. Depending on cost, you might be better off either having this barrel relined or simply replacing the barrel with a new-made barrel, then when you ever decide to sell the rifle, if you don't alter the original, you could ask a slightly higher premium for the gun with two barrels: the unaltered one for display, the new one for shooting?
    First Cousin (7 times removed) to Brigadier General Stand Watie (1806-1871), CSA
    1st Cherokee Mounted Rifles | Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation 1862-66

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. McAuley 3014V View Post
    Is this a British-made or Belgian-made barrel? British proofing required two proofs; Belgians only required one. The British trades were still making barrels the old-fashion way by hammer-forging when the United States had implemented the more modern practice of using a rolling mill, which finally replaced barrel-making in Birmingham in the mid-1860s when BSACo built their new armory to build the government Enfield. Depending on cost, you might be better off either having this barrel relined or simply replacing the barrel with a new-made barrel, then when you ever decide to sell the rifle, if you don't alter the original, you could ask a slightly higher premium for the gun with two barrels: the unaltered one for display, the new one for shooting?
    This is a BSAT P53 with the two proofs along with the BP/Crown and the two 25's. It's going to be a reline after all. I decided to get a thin bristled brass brush along with some oil and clean the area. What I ended up finding was mostly light pitting except for the one spot that's shown just in front of the rear sight. That one lateral spot, although very narrow, ended up being about 0.07" in depth (measured with a thin brass bristle). With the use of a micrometer and some quick public math, I was able to determine that the pit had eaten into the barrel by about 40% of it's thickness. That's too much for my comfort, so it'll be relined.

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