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Thread: 1862 Sharps & Hankins Navy Carbine Cartridge Queston

  1. #1
    jscottfischer is offline
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    1862 Sharps & Hankins Navy Carbine Cartridge Queston

    I have a 1862 Sharps & Hankins Navy Carbine, handed down from my father who passed many years ago. Ive restored it to working order, and checked for cracks and signs that it is unsafe to fire, which I have deemed it is safe to fire. I have been reloading many years and many calibers, as well as dealing with black powder firearms, damascus shotguns (I have a 1874 Parker 12 guage... but will NOT be shooting that without sleeves!) so I understand much of firearm/load mechanics.

    I also understand that it is rare, it is collectable, and Im sure that someone would post "never shoot it" but I will be very honest, there is no value in this arm for me to let it sit in my safe, nor do I have any value in selling it... ever. Its from my father and means a lot to me, I have no desire to part with it. Also, I love history and for me, there is far more value in shooting a few rounds from it than anything else as well as sharing with my son. Ive replaced the leather cover that was falling off, and so to me, it is brand new old stock! Thats where the value is for me.

    So on, down the road of research I go, looking for answers to what these firearms used to eat for lunch! Ive come to find that these particular arms are rare, and have found that they were chambered for a 52 Sharps Rimfire.

    But let me back up a little. Previous to this discovery, I had taken some measurements because I had seen conflicting information. I dont have the details right at the moment, but I had read somewhere that these were chambered in 56/50 or 56/52 Spencer. Seems to be a lot of different info out there! So I measured every detail (I did not slug the bore however, just used micrometers) and came up with the 56/50 Spencer would in fact chamber in the 1862 Sharps. So I figured I had found a solution. Dixie sells a 56/50, 56/52 Spencer rimfire conversion cartridge, in which you place a 22 blank in a primer hole at the edge of the shell, fill with powder ( in this case, 30 gr fffg, a compressed load - not trying to kill myself either!) load a bullet (I have the "54 sharps", 475 grain, christmas triee/post lead bullet, lubed with plenty of moly!) and off to the races.

    Well, it fires, it fires well and safe! And for also apparently using the wrong cartridge!

    After more research to ensure I wasnt unnecessarily endangering myself, I have discovered that the 52 sharps cartridge appears a little longer, and seems to use a lighter bullet and almost twice as much powder!

    This is why I am posting this because I need some fellas more educated than I in the subject to lend a helping hand. Is there a cartridge that I can use that is the right length and will get the bullet closer to the rifling, while maintaining the rimfire firing pin, keeping the rifle original? As I said before, I have replaced the leather so its technecally not original... but I think you know what I mean. The rimfire system works great, I dont see the need to modify the rifle when I can use a rimfire conversion cartridge.

    I could also have a machinist friend of mine run a small run of brass cartridges in 52 sharps rimfire with the same conversion method, using the same 22 blank method...

    Thanks for any information you guys can provide!
    Last edited by jscottfischer; 01-29-2017 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Correction

  2. #2
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    I would suggest having your machinist friend make the proper length cartridges. Then get a different Sharps bullet because the "Christmas Tree" bullet is only for the percussion Sharps which had bore diameter issues. The bottom ring on that bullet is way over size at .557. The Sharps & Hankins were very consistent in bore diameter. I would also suggest not using .22 caliber blanks for your ignition source because they are high power and cause the projectile to move forward before the powder can ignite. My friends and I have found that using .22 Shorts or CB Caps with the bullet pulled and powder dumped make for a much more consistent group. BB Caps with the round ball pulled were the best, but they are no longer available.

  3. #3
    jonk is offline
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    Since you are going through this much effort already, another option is that there is an outfit now making .22 reloading kits. You mix up the priming compound and press it into the rim area yourself.

    I don't see any reason why you couldn't have your friend make some proper rimfire cartridges without sleeves, and reprime them yourself; or else reprime the .22 cases so as not to be using blanks, but to avoid pulling bullets.

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    Muley Gil is offline
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    Welcome!

    "...and Im sure that someone would post 'never shoot it'..."

    You will never hear that statement around the N-SSA. There are about as many original arms on the firing line as there are reproductions. I would recommend making a chamber cast.
    Gil Davis Tercenio
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    34th Battalion, Virginia Cavalry
    Great, great grandson of Cpl Elijah S Davis, Co I, 6th Alabama Inf CSA

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    Spencer rounds seem to genetically all be similar in the back and diameter, except for length and maybe a taper at the bullet end. Another way of shooting your carbine is to load the black powder into the case, put a sheet of cork on top, push it down on the case to form a seal. Then you can load a loose bullet into the chamber, then the case and fire it. I remember this from an old American Rifleman Magazine that showed you how to load and shoot round balls as a gallery load. One important thing to remember about rimfire chambers is that you can lengthen the case and shorten the bullet to get it closer to the rifling or visa versa.
    N-SSA Member since 1974

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    I use Starline 50-70 Govt cases drilled to accept a .22 short case. The RMC 56-56 Spencer cases are too large in diameter. The bullet is the Lyman 542622 with the base plug replaced with one that forms a flat base heeled bullet instead of the stock hollow base Minie. I haven't shot it much but the combination seems to work well.

    Where did you get the replacement leather cover? Mine is completely gone and I'd like to find a suitable replacement.

    Richard Hill
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    14th Mississippi

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    Eggman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
    Welcome!

    "...and Im sure that someone would post 'never shoot it'..."

    You will never hear that statement around the N-SSA. There are about as many original arms on the firing line as there are reproductions. I would recommend making a chamber cast.
    Guns have feelings. If you ignore them and leave them sitting in the gun rack they'll set your house on fire.
    Last edited by Eggman; 01-30-2017 at 03:44 PM.

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    jscottfischer is offline
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    Thanks!

    Hey Guys thanks for the support! Heres a few pictures of the ol' girl.

    I couldnt get the bore real clear, but its practically brand new. I mean its clean and sharp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Hill View Post
    Where did you get the replacement leather cover? Mine is completely gone and I'd like to find a suitable replacement.
    Richard, are you shooting one of these as well? The leather cover I made myself, I had some rawhide I got from a friend and I made a template out of paper with plenty of material on it to spare. Oiled the leather up with a combination of leather conditioner, gun oil, I actually tried using mahogany stain to get it to darken up, but to no avail. Then I let it sit for a while, cleaned it all off, cut out the shape, oiled the barrel a bit, clamped it onto the barrel and positioned it with some of those small cheap stamped steel spring clamps and just stitched it right on there tight as I could get it with a large needle and some thick thread. After that was finished, I cut out the lower portion and screwed the screws into the barrel. I oiled it again when I was done and used some brown shoe polish to try darken it up. Its so full of oils and wax I dont think it can take a color. So it is what it is, I kinda wish it was dark like the original... guess Im just gonna have to wait another 155 years! I dont know if its a suitable replacement, but it works for me.

    Anyone else know anyone shooting one of these? I cant find anything at all on the web. No load data, nothing. Only cases i can find are old dug antiques, I dont care to destroy some of them (not to mention cost!) just to get the cases. Im starting to think Im the only one in the world shooting one of these?
    Attached Images Attached Images               
    Last edited by jscottfischer; 02-02-2017 at 10:04 AM. Reason: add info, pictures

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