Sharps "o-ring job"?

[Maillemaker]

So evidently Charlie Hahn and some others do an "o-ring" job on Sharps rifles and carbines. I am given to understand that a part of the sliding bushing is removed and an o-ring put in front of it that keeps the rear of the bushing protruding out into the chamber space a bit, keeping it butted up against the breech block.

It appears that Pedersoli has already done a similar o-ring job, but they come at it from the opposite direction, putting the o-ring behind the gas plate in front of the block. This has the same effect of keeping a tight fit between the breech face and the chamber.

Is the Pedersoli fix as good as the Charlie Hahn fix?

I was able to get about 20 shots off before the fouling made the action difficult to operate. Then I had to squirt some Ballistol on the breech face to free up the action.

The Pedersoli "o-ring job":


Steve

[Michael Bodner]

I think you answered your own question... 20 shots before it locks up.

We can go a whole carbine match (40-60 shots) with a Charlie Hahn seal without worrying about lock-up (or cleaning the breech mechanism).

-Mike

[Wayne Clark]

Steve,
A few questions. Do you use any lube on the chamber side or breech face? Do you lube the breech block itself ? Were you shooting hair curler paper cartridges? Also not related, have you cleaned your vent clean out screw and channel? Do forgive me for being simple. By your previous posts,I wan't sure how much experience you had with one of these. You don't need the type of tutoring I was laying on. Your gun was used and I was't sure if "Plowboy" had cleaned the vent regularly, I had an early Shiloh and unknowingly failed to clean it. Well, when I discovered it I twisted the vent screw head off. Then I had a problem.
W. Clark

[Fred Jr]

I have a Shiloh Sharps that I've been competing with for 30+ years. A couple years ago I had Charlie do his magic and it shoots better than I can shoot it. It had eaten away around the breech and needed some help. I can't even guess how many rounds went through it before it needed the help. Since I have had the work done it has never become bound while i was shooting.

just my experience with my baby! A couple shoots ago I decided that I would go ahead and shoot it in the rain. It didn't speak to me for two weeks!

[Maillemaker]

Hi Wayne,

I have only shot it once during a load workup test last weekend.

I'm shooting the Pedersoli USA 317-541 3-ring bullet. It is about 525 grains. I made the cartridge body out of standard printer paper, with an internal end cap made using hair curler paper. They worked very well. I had only one failure to fire but I think this was because I got a drop of Ballistol on the nipple. All the rest went off immediately. Sometimes a bit of paper residue remained, but it pushed forward with the introduction of the next bullet. I have since made up the next batch using nitrated paper to see if it burns up more completely. I tried making the cartridge body out of hair curler paper but found it too fragile.

Here is what my cartridge looks like:




Here is what the residue looked like, when it could be found:


Before shooting I greased all of the contact areas of the block with white lithium grease, side rails, rear rails, front face of gas check plate, and between the plate and block.

When the action started to bind up, I found through trial and error that applying Ballistol to the interface between the front face of the gas check plate and the breech was where all of the sticking was coming from. I was using Ballistol because that was all I had at the range to work as a lube. It worked fine and the action would work again for another 10 shots or so before I had to re-lube with more Ballistol.

Yes, I removed the cone, clean-out-screw, and fire channel exit during cleaning.

I found 50 grains 3F Goex gave a very good group.



Steve

[Maillemaker]

After reading this:

http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/E...ing_Sharps.pdf

It sounds like Pedersoli has incorporated the "Sam Dobbins" method of improving the gas check:

But instead of an open flange, the Pederosoli Sharps has a weird
recessed flange/flat washer combination that slides down around the
internal cone of the breechblock. Last January Jim Boullion of the
Wisconsin Co. clued me in on how to improve the performance on a
Pederosoli Sharps—without mucking about with the gas sleeve. He
got his advice by an NSSA gunsmith by the name of Sam Dobbin.
Sam told Jim to remove the gas check, flip it faceplate down and
grind down the circular/washer (the part that rests against the
breechblock recess and surrounds the protruding block cone). Take
very small swipes of metal off until you remove between 1/32-1/16th
of an inch. Dobbin then inserts a rubber or neoprene 3/4 x 1/16
"O" ring into the space, covers it with grease, and then pushes the gas
check down over it. The ‘O’ ring acts like a spring; it maintains
enough pressure on the gas check that when fired the check will move
forward and seal the breech. Also, the O-ring provides enough ‘play’
that it doesn’t interfere when the block is drawn up and down when
reloading. According to Jim his new rebuilt Garret block action stays
operational and smooth even after 50 or 60 rounds (both live and
blank) have been fired through it.

Steve

[Wayne Clark]

Steve,
Thats a good looking cartridge. Yes, curler paper a bit fragile, but manageable. That is what I use, nitrated. When you say fragile, what problem have you encountered?

W. Clark

[Maillemaker]

Yes, curler paper a bit fragile, but manageable. That is what I use, nitrated. When you say fragile, what problem have you encountered?

I just found them too weak to sustain any kind of handling after I removed the tube from the mandrel - they just collapse at the slightest touch. Trying to re-insert a mandrel with the hair-curler "end cap" would destroy it. Trying to set a bullet into the other end would bend over the edge of the paper. I contemplated doubling up the hair curling papers to make a more stout body, but ultimately settled on the notebook paper, which worked pretty well even without nitrating. I have now nitrated paper and will try again using that.

Sounds like a stout load your using, but average. That barrel probably has more than one harmonic. Start lower, up it say 5 grains at a time.. you of course will have to adjust the filler as well. Mine has 3 harmonics, I try to use the one nearest the middle.

I did workups with 40, 45, 50, 55, and 60 grains (60 is near the max that will fit in the chamber with this bullet). You can see the groupings on the target above. Top-center is the 50 grain group.

Steve

[Wayne Clark]

Steve,
I understand about trying to insert an end cap .
W.Clark

[Maillemaker]

Yeah, there was a video where a fellow was applying the cap to the outside of the tube using dilluted Elmers.

I'll try some 30s and 35s next time. But it's pretty hard to beat what I got with 50.

Steve