buidling two lemat carbines

[kymmwilson]

im building two lemat carbines and am curious as to rules for use in nssa events, would i be able to shoot in a carbine compitition with said lemats??being 9 shot with a shot gun (or buck n ball) how would this work
thanks Kymm

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

If allowed, it would probably be classified as a BLII, a repeater, not Carbine.

Although I don't think the issue has come up, I suspect the answer would be no for the same reason the Colt revolving rifles are not allowed. The manner of shooting such a carbine would put your hand in front of a loaded cylinder. Since chain fires have been noted in such weapons, rules prohibit use of such weapons for safety reasons.

It still is an interesting question. Anyone with more knowledge want to chime in?

[Richard Hill]

Read Section 14 of the rules, posted on this web site. Also, no evidence has yet been discovered that confirms the importation of these carbines for use in the Civil War.

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

The Rules state this:

14.4 PROHIBITED ARMS
The use of any firearm employing exposed loaded chambers which must be held so that portions of the body of the competitor, other competitors, or spectators are in the line of fire of unfired chambers is prohibited. Also prohibited from use in N-SSA competition is any US smoothbore musket utilizing a barrel manufactured for a model of firearm prior to the model of 1816. Reproductions of smoothbore muskets and barrels manufactured prior to 1816 must have Small Arms Committee approval.

Also, in line with what Richard posted:

14.1 ACCEPTABLE SKIRMISH MATCH FIREARMS
Only original or reproductions of military firearms manufactured during the Civil War or prewar era, and which meet the criteria set forth in these rules, shall be used for competition. Those arms must have been manufactured prior to 26 April 1865 in quantities of at least 100 arms each. The arms must have been possessed by a US, CS, state, or local military authority during the American Civil War, but they do not need to have been issued to troops in the field.

[kymmwilson]

thanks you guys !
im not quite sure how a carbine six shooter differs from a hand gun six shooter they both have same risk and any fool knows you dont hold out onto the barrel (thus the hand hold on trigger gaurd)and it is but a few inchs further back than a hand gun ? but rules are rules
And there is proof that it was used in a reciept for ammo for lemats carbines recieved in the south in 1862 bublished in one of the lemat books and there numbers where well above two hundred ????
kymm

[Minieball577]

Our rules also require handguns to be fired with one hand, so the risk in a revolver is not an issue as it COULD be in a revolving rifle.

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

Use of the Lemat Carbine is still not legal I believe for the safety reasons described previously (I am not sure that is a "hand Hold" on the trigger guard), I would like to see your proof that the Lemat Carbine was actually imported to this country during the CW period.

Ammunition, from my readings, is the same for both the Army revolvers and the carbines. Revolver importation and usage is well documented but not for the Carbine.

I seem to have read the Carbine was post CW, not during, and was used by the US Army.

If you have this documentation, I am sure folks on this board would like to see it.

[efritz]

Interesting that the firearm is prohibited for safety reasons. Can anything be more unsafe than the Henry? Shooters have been maimed by these firearms and numerous other accidents have been noted, yet they are still allowed.

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

In the N-SSSA, Henry shooters are required to be trained to follow certain specific safety rules and procedures that minimize the chance of the accidents you describe. The Henry was actually used as a single shot only for a period of time until the safety rules and procedures had been put into effect. Since we put the rules into effect, I am not aware of any incidents with the Henry. The Henry is still required to be single fed for individuals to limit the opportunity for an error. Violate the rules and you will be pulled from the line.

The primary cause of most of the injuries was improper reloading of cartridges combined with loading techniques used to put the cartridges in the weapon. The principal cause is the reloader using Rifle primers in Pistol brass. This results in raised primers. The rules are designed to lessen the chance that a raised primer can cause an accident. Ammunition is also subject to inspection for raised primers.

There is no adaptation of shooting that I can see that will make a revolving rifle or carbine safe. The hand is out in front of loaded chambers. If a chainfire occurs, so will a serious injury.

[kymmwilson]

Actually the ammo for the carbine was different in that the single lower barrel was actually undersized(as compared to pistol)as to add clearance for threads on retaining lug, and then rifled to boot.
and i would bet there was more powder but thats totall speculation.
i will see if i can scan ( well you will have to email me as i cant post any pictures on site)the reciept document clearly stating ammunition for lemats carbine 1862!
Mute point though id say the powers to be have made a dicision and nobody reverses a Custer dicision!!aye................
Dr Lemat recognized the hand forward of chamber problem and addressed this with victorian thinking and in the first attempts used the spurred trigger gaurd of the calvery mod as a rudimentery saecond hand hold, but finding this lacking,switched to an enlarged flattened forend of the trigger gaurd (which was its intended purpose albeit insuficiant)
it seem's silly to me exclude a gun, that is identical hundreds being used excepying a longer barrel and stock!

kymm.k.wilson@boeing.com